Experience ISO Excellence

Rob Kantner answers your questions:


How long must we keep calibration records? (9/14/07)

I am wondering how long I have to keep test equipment calibration records on file for. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

I'm not aware of any law or regulation prescribing the length of time such records must be kept. From an ISO standpoint, absolute minimum is one year. Probably, to be safe, keep them 3-5 years; this gives you backup in case a customer comes back to you sometime down the line.

How should we handle this recurring ISO noncompliance? (8/31/06)

One of the noncompliances written at our last surveillance audit is a document control issue that is ongoing. Operators continue to keep blank forms at the work area which they are not supposed to do. They slide them into the process sheet sleeve that is kept there.

In order to alleviate this problem hopefully is to remove the sleeve that holds the process sheets and put them on binder rings, that way the blank forms would just fall out if you tried to stash them there.

This is something that will not be done before the audit. Should I leave the audit finding open with a date of "next internal audit" for verification?

They did training on the issue and got a sign-off sheet for a short-term fix. Should I use that to close the issue for the audit and then open up another internal corrective action that would be kept in another binder that I am in all the time because it also holds the external complaints?

Or, can I make a preventive action request out of it (because our preventive action binder lacks anyway)??

I advise you to be completely open about this recurring problem. The original corrective action was not effective, so I'd raise a new one, restating the problem and stating plainly that the original corrective action was not effective.

Just leave it in the system that way. I strongly doubt the registration people will raise a finding of their own as long as they see that you are addressing it. (God knows the auditors will not find it earthshaking that a corrective action did not work the first time!) Unless of course you get an assessor who's especially picky about paperwork (there are such creatures) - but hey, all you can do is all you can do. Better to have it openly addressed in the system than hide it and hope they don't notice.

I would not turn it into a preventive action because technically "preventive action" is for problems that have not occurred, intended to prevent their occurrence. This one has occurred and continues to occur, so corrective action has been ineffective (so far).

ISO "cheat sheets" (4/10/06)

In an ISO system, is it permissible for someone to have a "cheat sheet" at her desk? That is, it is a piece of a work instruction, but it has more detail (detail that is not needed in the work instruction) that makes it easier for her to follow (and someone else who may do her desk for a day). The info on this sheet does not disagree with the work instruction, mind you - it is just more specific.

First off, this probably happens all of the time. People make up their own notes to "put things in their own words" to make it easier for themselves to do a certain duty. I understand that if the work instruction itself changes, we face the possibility of that "cheat sheet" now disagreeing with the work instruction - that is essentially "uncontrolled." But can we trust in the system enough to rely on the fact that the person doing that job will be notified of the change (if they weren't actually the person that made the change anyway) by the process owner of the doc?

If people get caught with these types of notes, it's a noncompliance. Not a major unless it's rampant, but it's contrary to the whole purpose of the system, which is that we control such job instructions. If the person doesn't find the work instruction sufficiently helpful, then he/she is obligated to propose changes to the work instruction, and if he/she is a subject matter expert, that's all to the good. PLEASE nip this in the bud wherever you find it.

How accurate must organization charts be? (12/6/04)

How consistent do organization charts have to be with the titles / functions mentioned in procedures and work instructions?

They must be completely consistent. This is not to say that an organization chart must list every single function of the organization. Some summarization / consolidation is acceptable here in the interest of clarity. But job functions, titles, etc. must be consistent across the entire system - organization chart, procedures, work instructions, training plans / records, job descriptions (though job descriptions as such are not specifically required and, in fact, are not always desirable).

Controlled documents (8/8/05)

I attended an ISO class where the instructor said that our procedures have to include a) list of forms used in the procedure, including revision level and revision dates; b) revision history including brief explanations of what was changed with each revision of the procedure. This sounds like a lot of bureaucracy, and when I asked where ISO 9001 requires us to do that, the instructor had no (real) answer. What's the scoop?

He/she had no answer because there is no such requirement in the Standard. Listing the forms is a good idea, but it's neither necessary nor convenient to list revision level and revision dates of the forms; that's found on the forms themselves. As for revision history, this is also unnecessary -- if you keep an archive of obsolete versions. That archive functions as an adequate revision history.

Must we keep hard copies of obsolete ISO documents? (11/5/04)

If we keep obsolete versions of ISO documents on computer (so that revision history can be tracked), do we need hard copy also? Can we destroy all obsolete hard copies?

Yes. There is no earthly reason to keep obsolete hard copies of they are available electronically.

System documents available only via electronic means: bad idea? (10/7/04)

We are planning to make the ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 system documents available only in our network and not in hard copy form. What are the accessibility requirements?

The true test is for any employee (hourly or otherwise) to have reasonable access to documents pertaining to them - and to be able to show such a document to an auditor on request. One of our clients took the position that the employee may ask a supervisor to access computer files for him/her and obtain the document, and this is acceptable, barely. We are very enthusiastic about using electronic distribution. The worst case is that if internal audit shows that certain employees can’t access the documents, simply revert to hard copy in those areas.

On line document sources

I want to develop a quality manual and procedure for getting ISO 9000 certification. Are there any internet sites where detailed/model manuals can be viewed in respect of quality policies and procedures with the help of which I can develop my own system and develop manual and procedure which can be presented to a registrar for audit. Or one has to go to a consultant for getting the manual and procedure made. Please inform the name of such sites where the information desired by me may be available.

I don't know of any internet sites that offer models such as these. Though the policy sections are fairly generic, the standard operating procedures are so specific to the organization concerned that templates / models are not very helpful. Most companies either develop these on their own, or enlist the aid of a consulting firm (like mine).

You need to start with a copy of the Standard itself to find out what's required. You can get this by ordering from ASQ at www.ASQ.com, or from the standards organization in your country.

Form Numbers, Procedures, Work Instructions

Does all of our internal paperwork used everyday need to have a form number (header or footer)? Or does just quality related paperwork (such as specs)have to have a form number? I thought that whatever would be included in a procedure or work instruction needed to have a form number. Technically if it does not have a form number than it does not have to be in "the books" with procedures and work instructions. Also, could you explain the differences between procedures and work instructions?

Forms referenced by or related to the quality system (procedures, work instructions, etc.) need to be controlled. Most organizations use form numbers are part of this process. How you set that up is up to you. So it's more than just specs -- if a form is referred to by a procedure or a work instruction, it needs to be controlled.

It's not necessary to keep forms in the procedures / work instruction books. You can keep them anywhere you want to as long as the people who need them know where to find the latest approved versions.Typically, procedures (sometimes called "level 2 documents") spell out how PROCESSES are done. So you would write a procedure to document how your process for calibrating measuring equipment would be done. A process is a series of activities.

Work instructions are used to document how ACTIVITIES or TASKS are done. So work instructions are subsets of procedures. They are much more detailed than procedures. Normally they are written in step-by-step format. The important thing about work instructions is to use them ONLY in places where an activity or task must always be carried out a certain specific exact way. In other words, it's not required (or desirable) to write a work instruction for every single blessed activity in the place!

Work instructions are normally written to document things like 1) inspection / testing practices, 2) work activities that have a direct impact on quality; 3) work activities whose outcome cannot be independently inspected / judged.

Electronic Document Distribution

Is it Ok if we maintain all documents on-line as master and any hardcopy will be issue. So there will not be any control/register for issues, but any change to the master will be notified to all users by mail. Is this OK? What will be my Document control note on all documents?

If what you're asking me is if documents can be maintained and accessed electronically - with read-only access - the answer is yes. This is an ideal method because you have no hard copies to go obsolete. Notifying users of changes via email, etc. is fine, too.

Quality Manual Quality

Why is it that Quality Manuals tend to have specific sections relating to each of the ISO9000 clauses?

This practice is a hangover from the "bad old" days of the original 1987 Standard. Back then it was thought necessary for the Quality Manual to parrot the language of the Standard virtually in boilerplate fashion.

Today's Quality Manuals (and, for that matter, Environmental, Health/Safety, or integrated system policy manuals) focus on policies, objectives, process sequence / interaction, and description of (with reference to) system documentation. The typical quality manual has some text, some charts, and some tables. And it's quite brief. Certainly less than 20 pages.

Revising Procedures

In regards to ISO9000, our company has been certified for two years and will be up for re-certification in November 97. My question in regards to Policies, SOPs, Work Instructions and Forms. After creation or revision of one or the other two years have been given before the document is up for review. What is the normal or acceptable time span that should be applied to these documents for "last date of use" and where in any manual does it reference the life span of a document?

There is no "normal" or "acceptable" time. The usual approach is to state in the procedure (on document and data control) that procedures are updated as needed through suggestions by employees and/or feedback from internal quality audits. Given the amount of dynamic change that usually occurs just from these sources, I see no reason or need for having a separate scheduled "review process." Strikes me as overkill.

Documents of External Origin

The Standard talks about control of documents of external origin. My question deals with the words Applicable & Standards. we do great job in controlling customer drawings but the standards and codes but we are unsure how to define which ones we need to control. Any thoughts ??

Any externally generated document that you use in your facility that does, or can, affect the quality of the product/service going to the customer, must be controlled. Control means, first of all, having a process for assuring that what you're using is the source's latest approved version. Control also means that, if you copy and circulate the document internally, you have the means to assure that only the latest approved version is in use.

How Generic Can Our Quality Manual Be?

I want to do my quality manual by typing the ISO 9000 Standard and replacing shall with will. Is there any problem with this?

There are three drawbacks to this approach.

  • It's plagiarism. (Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal from several, it's research.)
  • When you mindlessly parrot the Standard, you may not fully understand what you are saying, and this can cause you to say something you don't mean. This is one of the more avoidable ways to get a noncompliance at audit time.
  • It makes the ISO system harder to implement because, invariably, you are using language and terms with which your people are not familiar.

Having said that, utilizing chunks of language from the Standard is not a bad way to start, as long as you fully comprehend what you are saying.

Your initial draft can begin as a rip-off of the Standard. But then let upper and middle management read the document thoroughly and provide feedback. You'll get lots of questions, and the answers to those questions will help you polish the manual and make it more distinctly your own.

Do the same with selected people from among the hourly group. Edit the manual some more. Strive to eliminate "quality jargon," stuffy Britishese, beancounter / lawyer lingo, and other bureaucratic stuffiness that may not suit the way people in your company think and talk.

Ultimately, the ISO/QS 9000 system belongs to you, not the auditors, and the policies expressed in the manual should be written in that spirit.

How Good Are "Canned" Quality Manuals and Procedures?

I'm being bombarded by companies wanting to sell me ISO 9000 software for our quality manual and procedures. Does this type of software really make it easier to get ready for registration?

Assuming the material is competently organized and presented, it can eliminate much of the "scut" work involved in putting the documentation together.

But every organization is different. Even organizations in the same general line of work can be vastly different. (Even divisions in the same organization can differ tremendously!) No "canned" set of documents can possibly be installed on a "plug and play" basis, no matter how carefully designed.

Start with a model or a template, if you can find one. But then it's essential that you review the material line by line, word by word, and edit it. Not just once, but repeatedly, with input and feedback from everyone affected by it. That is the only way to make sure it fits you and expresses and defines your quality system and its procedures accurately.

Sure, it's work. Grueling and mind-numbingly boring work. (If there's a more intrinsically boring subject than ISO/QS-9000, I have yet to find it.) But there's no escaping the work; there's no quick fix and no way around it. Without it, you may have a "system" --at least on paper -- but it will not necessarily improve your organization (or, for that matter, pass a rigorous audit).

What's value-added about that?

Can Our Procedures Be On Line?

What does ISO 9000 say about documentation, specifically, policies and procedures, help and training delivered on-line?

ISO 9001 (2000) has a note that makes it clear that documents can be distributed in any medium. Increasingly our clients are moving to electronic distribution via networks or intranets.

On policies and procedures, you have to show that a documented system exists for the preparation, approval, and distribution of documents. This would require things like read-only access for all but authorized people, as well as regular data backups. You would also need to see to it that everyone who needs access to the procedures has reasonable access to them. Training, similarly, is a matter of planning what you're going to do, documenting it in a procedure, and keeping records. Probably the latter issue is the most challenging with respect to on-line training; perhaps some kind of on-line "completion quiz," which the student would take, could be prepared and then stored not only as a record that the raining was taken, but also as a means of assessing effectiveness.

Additional resources

Ask a question

 

Your Name:

Email Address:

Company:

City and State:

Question: